ka with ITB's soon? input greatly appreciated

Devil Man said:
they arent 11:1.... it will bring you up to 10:1 and sure you could cryo the stock rods... i am sure that they would be fine with that... but as for using stock pistions you will have the same if not worse issue that turbo'ing a stock KA would with the ring landings... but what do i know i am only a spectator.... oOOooOOo
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well i really wann do an overbore of .06 to get where i need to be as far as pistons go. i really though sohc was 11 hmmm.

MiaS13 said:
you kinda make a point. but if you putting 5gs into a KA 250 is not what your getting, thats what budget builds will get you. let me give you an example

KA - $300
Arias Pistons & Rings - $600
JE Rods - $400
JGS T3 Mani - $350
IC Kit - $350
Turbo - $300
lines, fittings etc - $200
downpipe, exhaust, wastegate $500
550cc injecotrs and top feed rails - $400
Labor and machining $1000
tune - $300
misc (couplers, bolts fluids) - $200

thats $4900 dollars and i dont see why you cant make 400 with that
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it really depends on what turbo u wana use really, and how much lag u want honestly u know tho.
i just want the smoothest torque curve is all. na is where its at. and the responsive ness of itb is priceless really, thats what this is all about. i tried turbo, i hate it.

great discussion guys. thanks. peace. ill be back down south soon with something again i promise

Devil Man said:
they arent 11:1.... it will bring you up to 10:1 and sure you could cryo the stock rods... i am sure that they would be fine with that... but as for using stock pistions you will have the same if not worse issue that turbo'ing a stock KA would with the ring landings... but what do i know i am only a spectator.... oOOooOOo
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"The KA-E pistons are low compression, with the given combustion chamber on a KA-E. The DE has a smaller cc, which will skyrocket the compression to 11.4:1" nicoclub.com
 
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^ your right I would but don't crap all over him because then he will smell bad & no one likes to smell bad:(
 
I was on that Na Ka boat back in 2003.

Yeah, I rather boost and double my hp figures. Also, whats this horrible lag you speak of? What kinda turbo we talking about here? This isn't a 2j, buddy. :ugh:
 
Ka-Tony said:
I was on that Na Ka boat back in 2003.

Yeah, I rather boost and double my hp figures. Also, whats this horrible lag you speak of? What kinda turbo we talking about here? This isn't a 2j, buddy. :ugh:
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get a .50 back and like a .48 front. quickie quickie
 
yeah and if you want more info speak to slick rick, i think i talked to him once or so before about this kind of thing and you would really have alot of issues with detonation and thus blowing up your motor asap. talk to dan about this too he might be able to help you out.... maybe
 
jrsink said:
u be the judge. it takes me about a day to source and install a ka too. no gay intercooler piping or oil lines to worry about either.
and another question SPECTATOR (lol), if you built a ka for 3-4000 thousand ok, then what? its obviously gonna be ka-t, so then u gotta buy all that ka-t shit, thats another 1000 or 1500, plus tune, another 500 bux...by then your in a motor that u jsut spentalmost $5000. and u got 225-250 reliably whp.
im gonna be at 200-225 na, with about $1,000 bux more into my car. THE WHOLE REASON IDECIDED TO DO THIS SETUP was bc i already have an existing stand alone engine management system. u have to have this to run itb's.
plus FUCK LAG, that shit aint for me. instant torque and a smooth torque curve is where its at for drifting :)
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Ugh? Fully built Ka equals 225-250 whp to you? Fresh news to me.. I could've sworn thats the kind of numbers you get out of a budget build. As mentioned earlier...

I don't think Na/Ka vs Boost/Ka should be disputed. If thats what you're set on doing, fine. Just don't try and mislead others who might not know much into thinking that an Na/Ka will be in the same margin of hp as a fully built, Ka-t.

IMO, an Na/Ka at 200hp isn't even rewarding enough. I much rather drop an ls1. Stay Na with bolt ons and have a RELIABLE Na motor at 300hp. Just my 2 cents...

Gluck on your build. :bigthumbu
 
goodluck. itbs is a waste of time on na ka though imo

it might sound cool, but w/e exhaust you put is gonna make it sound like a civic anyway. N/A ftw!!
 
Ka-Tony said:
I was on that Na Ka boat back in 2003.

Yeah, I rather boost and double my hp figures. Also, whats this horrible lag you speak of? What kinda turbo we talking about here? This isn't a 2j, buddy. :ugh:
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i was very disappointed with the torque curve of my ca18det with pulsar t28, it made over 220 hp, im actually pickin up the old dyno today, ill show yall what im talkin about...im looking for a torque curve like this:
new.jpg
SUUUUUUUUUUPER SMOOTH. this is the dyno from the guy on freshalloy that actually dynoed a na ka with itb's at about 221whp. pretty freakin impressive! i believe its some sort of a record actually for ka24des at least

here's a dyno of a similairly upgraded ca18det with same turbo, notice the suuuuuuuuper steep torque curve,HOW CAN YOU DRIFT WITH A TORQUE CURVE LIKE THIS??? this is why i got rid of it and decided to go back to na ka power. i predict my CA dyno sheet will look very similar to that. we well see today when i pick it up (there printer was broke when i got it tuned last month).
137487_106_full.jpg
 
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Again, that all depends on your setup. Why peak at 221hp when you can achieve more power RELIABLY on boost? I understand diff strokes for diff folks, so Im not trying to hate on your build.

I just want you to know that the torque curve you are looking for, is attainable on a Ka-t.

These are examples of Ka-t's with the torque curve you desire. Btw, none of these cars have any internal work. I tried searching for only budget type setups to kinda stay under 300hp.

1) http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38014

Torque_HP.png


2) http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29308

colordyno2.jpg


3) http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28481

RSantos.jpg



^^All these examples are on stock blocks and under 10 psi. Theres a reason why Na/Ka is nearly unheard of in the world of competitive drifting. Hell, so are Ka-t's now that i think about it. :laugh:

But thats a whole new discussion. I hope this helps you out. :bigthumbu
 
Ka-Tony said:
Again, that all depends on your setup. Why peak at 221hp when you can achieve more power RELIABLY on boost? I understand diff strokes for diff folks, so Im not trying to hate on your build.

I just want you to know that the torque curve you are looking for, is attainable on a Ka-t.

These are examples of Ka-t's with the torque curve you desire. Btw, none of these cars have any internal work. I tried searching for only budget type setups to kinda stay under 300hp.

1) http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38014

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/Guru_Dori/Torque_HP.png

2) http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29308

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h124/Ichigo240sx/colordyno2.jpg

3) http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28481

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/Guru_Dori/RSantos.jpg


^^All these examples are on stock blocks and under 10 psi. Theres a reason why Na/Ka is nearly unheard of in the world of competitive drifting. Hell, so are Ka-t's now that i think about it. :laugh:

But thats a whole new discussion. I hope this helps you out. :bigthumbu
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ok so here is the dyno map i just picked up from my ca18det with pulsAR T28 FRESHLY TUNED.
l_e60253a570ee45acb5420d9f9cf15fbb.jpg

SEE WHAT I WAS TALKIN ABOUT? it was very hard for me to drift with this powerband, it sux it doesnt show torque, but you get the idea.

I HAD NO IDEA YOU COULD GET SUCH A SMOOTH POWERBAND?TORQUE CURVE ON A KA-T like those dynos you posted, VERY INTERESTING. it appears that the top one wss using the same t28 that i was, but the curve is soooooooooo much smoooother, i guess thats because it was in a 2.4, not a 1.8 .like i was using. thanks man. do u think i could get a really mellow powerband like that from my ca18det if i used a stock turbo or t25 or somethin? i need to look at some more dynos of ca's i guess

well, i found this one thats pretty decent on a s14 t28, looks kinda mellow, but the torque on a ca is just waaaay to weak tho i think.
l_abeb7034b1879ad44fd5e91274e969e9.jpg
 
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Well the Ka24de naturally aspirated, makes about the same amount of TQ that a Ca18det does. Granted its also a higher displacement engine and has more exhaust flow then a Ca18. So when boosted that exhaust flow really comes in handy.

Yes you can also get that torque curve out of a Ca. Honestly, it all comes down to your budget/preference. If you already have a Ca then stick with it. Several people have Ca's making respectable power these days. All I'm saying is Na/Ka is not worth the time/money investment. You might wanna think twice about that route.

Btw, t28's and T3's do great things for the Ca. :bigthumbu
 
I bet you dont have the butterfly valves hooked up on the intake of the CA. If you had them hooked up right you wouldnt be complaining. The engine was designed to work with those to increase low end torque and a smoother powerband.

also if you only want 220rwhp then just stick with an SR T25g on the CA better spool and still make the same amount of power.
 
jrsink said:
I HAD NO IDEA YOU COULD GET SUCH A SMOOTH POWERBAND?TORQUE CURVE ON A KA-T like those dynos you posted, VERY INTERESTING. it appears that the top one wss using the same t28 that i was, but the curve is soooooooooo much smoooother, i guess thats because it was in a 2.4, not a 1.8 .like i was using.
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wtf? No its b/c you are having some ignition issues (the baseline) and b/c your dyno operator has the smoothing turned to 0 where as the other charts have it turned up to 5. The green line would easily be 100x smoother with the smoothing only turned up to say, 3.

As for the tq curve, you should post up a dyno chart that shows exactly what's going on. You're dyno operator set it to speed instead of RPM otherwise i'd plot it myself and figure out how your tq curve looks. But your chart is pretty useless.
 
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