Red Top vs. Black Top

A

Andres227

NKOTB
I just bought a 1993 240sx and am planning to do an SR swap. I can't decide wheter to shell out the extra cash to buy a black top instead of a red top. I was wondering if there are any major differences in performance and if so, what those differences are. Any help would be great! :cool:
 
s13 redtop and s13 blacktop have no differences in performance. the blacktop just has fewer miles. The S14 blacktop has the VTC but it gets deleted once you change to better cams. I say go for the redtop.
 
I'm only talking about the early model SR's with out vvt. And I did do my research. One source says that the black top s13 engines make better candidates for upgrades because thier cylinder head design breaths a little better than that of the red top engines. I was wondering if anyone knew to what extent this was true.

Thanks for your help suislide240sx. Finally a reply in complete sentences.
 
OK, firt things first; there are s13 sr20det blacktops, s14 sr20det blacktops, and s15 sr20det blacktops.

The differences are the heads. All s14 and s15 blacktops have VTC and a low port intake while the s13 blacktop has a high port head and no VTC (just like the redtop head).

The differences between the s13 sr20det blacktop and redtop are the bottom ends. Blacktop SR's - ALL blacktop SR's - have 54c pistons and updated piston oil squirters. They can handle more revs and more power than a conventional redtop. The HEADS are exactly the same - neither flow better. Whatever source you got that from was BS but I have a feeling you were misreading differences between s13 and s14/15 sr's.

Now there is also the elusive finned head redtop s13 sr which has 54c pistons but lots of people could just be swapping valve covers and confusing importers.
 
Ka24coupe said:
andres227 is right black top heads flow better. all u noobs need to do ur research
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Do you know if there is a major difference in performance or if its harder to make hp with the red top?

dori dori said:
OK, firt things first; there are s13 sr20det blacktops, s14 sr20det blacktops, and s15 sr20det blacktops.

The differences are the heads. All s14 and s15 blacktops have VTC and a low port intake while the s13 blacktop has a high port head and no VTC (just like the redtop head).

The differences between the s13 sr20det blacktop and redtop are the bottom ends. Blacktop SR's - ALL blacktop SR's - have 54c pistons and updated piston oil squirters. They can handle more revs and more power than a conventional redtop. The HEADS are exactly the same - neither flow better. Whatever source you got that from was BS but I have a feeling you were misreading differences between s13 and s14/15 sr's.

Now there is also the elusive finned head redtop s13 sr which has 54c pistons but lots of people could just be swapping valve covers and confusing importers.
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My source is actually an article from super street magazine. Also, I thought that it was the black top SR's that had lines (fins) cast into the front of the cylinder head. What are 54c pistons?
 
suislide240sx said:
s13 redtop and s13 blacktop have no differences in performance. the blacktop just has fewer miles. The S14 blacktop has the VTC but it gets deleted once you change to better cams. I say go for the redtop.
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I have absolutly no idea why you would want to get rid of NCVS for drifting, using 272 degree cams you will loose too much mid range torque on an sr.

Run 256\264 hks step 2 or equavilant that retains ncvs.
 
Andres227 said:
My source is actually an article from super street magazine. Also, I thought that it was the black top SR's that had lines (fins) cast into the front of the cylinder head. What are 54c pistons?
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Then I think you're misreading then. As ricer as super street is, I doubt they'd say something so wrong.

Black top sr's do have the fins cast into the head - and so do a very, very low number of redtops (which is why some think they were blacktops with swapped redtop valve covers before they were shipped over). Nobody really cares all that much.

54c pistons are just a different cast than redtop pistons. You can see the casting stamp on them. The undercrown design is different as are the oil squirters - all revised designs found in GTiR's and every blacktop.

I stole these images but added some markings so you can see:
54cjq2.jpg

undercrownmj6.jpg
 
dori dori said:
Then I think you're misreading then. As ricer as super street is, I doubt they'd say something so wrong.

Black top sr's do have the fins cast into the head - and so do a very, very low number of redtops (which is why some think they were blacktops with swapped redtop valve covers before they were shipped over). Nobody really cares all that much.

54c pistons are just a different cast than redtop pistons. You can see the casting stamp on them. The undercrown design is different as are the oil squirters - all revised designs found in GTiR's and every blacktop.

I stole these images but added some markings so you can see:
54cjq2.jpg

undercrownmj6.jpg
Click to expand...

So it's typically worth the extra money to go with a black topright? Do you know of any local legitimate vendors? I live in Pembroke Pines.
 
Yeah, its worth it. I bought my motor from Farley many moons ago - he got me the lowest mileage SR I've ever seen - had only around 7k miles on it when I got it. At the time, he didn't sell direct but you could purchase through some of the shops he did business with like bumblebee racing. Drag Intl is also good. They're all located around the same area in Davie. Maybe z4k will chime in - he used to work with those guys and can give you better contact information.
 
dori dori said:
Yeah, its worth it. I bought my motor from Farley many moons ago - he got me the lowest mileage SR I've ever seen - had only around 7k miles on it when I got it. At the time, he didn't sell direct but you could purchase through some of the shops he did business with like bumblebee racing. Drag Intl is also good. They're all located around the same area in Davie. Maybe z4k will chime in - he used to work with those guys and can give you better contact information.
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I found a complete swap from drag for 2650. Its supposidly from a 98 180sx. Im not sure if thats a good price though, it seems a bit expensive.
 
That is a bit epensive to me. I paid 2400 for mine a while ago. You're paying for peace of mind though which, if you've ever gone through a bad swap experience, can be priceless.

FYI - If you're ever planning on doing a ROM tune from Enthalpy or something, don't get a 97~98 blacktop - it will just make life more difficult for you since the comptuers that come with those motors (j4 ecu's) can't be tuned but the older blacktops (with e5 ecu's) can. You can always re-pin and get another computer but things don't always work out as well as they should (such is the situation I'm currently in).
 
Make sure if yo do go with Drag get paper work and all that good stuff. Make sure you get a 30day garentte atleast.

Ijust recently bought my last black top from JDM of Miami. Started first crank. Drove amazingly. Made it to Sarasota the very next day that is was installed. Quality stuff. Awesome guy over there. Call Moe @ 786-389-8768. Tell him Z4k sent you. His prices are amazing!

Farley is a good guy to. My buddy just finished his FC with a motor from Farley. Fired and and idles nice. But then there is the Greg incident. HIs motor was total SLUDGE INSIDE. Here is where the 30 Day Garentee comes in. Make sure where ever you end up you get atleast 30 days, try to get a compression tet on the spot and leak down test too.

Like Tony said STAY AWAY FROM 97 - 98 Motors if tunig is your goal. Or if you do get one sucker someone with a redtop to trade harnesses and ecus! :laugh:

As far as installation:
Bumble Bee and Farley are the only 2 shops around I would trust my car with
 
I got my black top from JDM as a group buy for a price that would blow your mind!! Due to money it sat in my yard covered up for about 5months, it did have a sezied turbo but i didnt mind becuase i wasnt going to use the stock turbo. Other then that the motor has worked fine, i would go with JDM because they have the best prices and ive had 3 motors from them all good 2 black tops and a D15B honda motor. had motors from drag int there good too but have goten a bit pricey.
 
z4k said:

As far as installation:
Bumble Bee and Farley are the only 2 shops around I would trust my car with
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lol my bro used to work with Farley.. my boy has one of his motors... and ive seen 2+motors from him that have been crap and he didnt honor his end... Check Prolink Japan... SUPER CLEAN MOTORS AND THIS GUY STANDS BEHIND HIS STUFF!! Or Just Japs
 
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