this discourages me, personally

[illphantasm]

it's threads like the one below that really make me not wanna bother with FF drifting; or much rather, keep it to myself.

http://www.drifting.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-6325.html

Of course, I shouldn't let it phase me, but I see it as discouraging when so many people
are so hellbent in saying that FF drifting isn't really drifting at all. And to be honest, I don't know whether to be offended by the term "a$$-dragging" or not.

When it comes down to it, by many references, drifting is defined as the loss of traction of your tires, hence the commonplace term of "going past your tires' limits". And personally, I don't plan to make any statement on FF drifting, it just so happens that my father handed me down his car and it happens to be front-wheel-drive. I want to take my car to many more events (as some of you know it's sorta down for a bit and I've got plans for it) but the simple fact that people are so narrow-minded liek that really discourages me from being more active in the events. You should have heard the comments from the "spectating drifters" behind the fence on the footage that Baldder recorded for me during the June 5th event. Those 3F3F bandwagon kids aren't gonna hel;p in anyway either by rudely reminding me that my car is FWD.

And for the record, I'm not really making my car into a drift car, but rather a low-budget performance car that I can drive and take out to the track for an enjoyable and competitive time -- but to revert to the subject, people like that, "internet drifters" as someone mentioned, really discourage me from even wanting to take my car out to the track sometimes. Sometimes I question whether I'm seen as a serious enthusiast or not because of that "controversy" alone.

I'm just happy with what I have, and want to have fun with it.

 

[rwdrift]

Drifting is unorthodox enough as it is..... so most people would think that drifting a front wheel drive is even more...... to the point that it's just stupid.

Reality of the matter is there are 1000 different definitions of what a drift is.... some would allow FFs to fit in, some wouldnt. Anyone that has the Import Racer Drifting Magazine (Annual 2003) probably came across the drifting FF article. They asked 10-15 big guys in the motorsports world "Can FFs be drifted?" Some said yes, some said no, some said it depends.

Now I've seen Civics try to make it in D1, and doing quite a good job at it, however an FF is a huge handicap when drifting. I see it more as a stunt than as a drift. It's awsome to watch, but I couldnt see anyone making it big with one.

My opinion? If the rear end is out, you're oversteering. If you're oversteering, you're drifting.

 

[Phil @ Aero K]

bro seriously who cares what other people say, as long as ur head is in the right spot and u want to drift, then go for it and do it just for you, its like being eminem in rap lol

 

[GreazyMule]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

 

[illphantasm]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

What's that all about?

But yea, I saw your video Essex, and let me say, I thought that was one hell of a feat you performed at OSW.

Otherwise, I agree with you Erick, in seeing it as a stunt. If I really wanted to be a drift champ, or make something out of it, I'd buy an RWD vehicle, because of the obvious beneficial charteristics of RWD vehicles. It's sort of the "knife in a gunfight" situation.

And right, I don't really care about what others say, but man I have to admit whenever I see a thread become FF-Bashfest '05, it pisses me off.

I heard that Hatakeyama (?) guy is doing some serious stuff with that EF Civic though.
Haven't seen it for myself yet, though.

 

[TurboDreams954]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

haha your the man tyler lol

oh yea and illphasm that just greazy being himself dont take hime serious lol

 

[Kenrik]

My brother has drifted his Dodge Dually 3500 before... lol what a sight! you can drift almost anything... don't give up some people are just narrow minded.

 

[Tonymac]

Hey, who cares what others say as long as you're having fun. Personally, untill a FWD car can connect turns and not straighten up or lose (much) speed, it aint drifting to me...and since that's physically impossible unless you're going downhill on a low-friction surface like grease or ice, I wouldn't call any FWD slides a drift. But w/e, I'm just another asshole with an opinion. Ignore me.

Wait, I don't want to discourage you anymore. FWIW, I'm thoroughly entertained AND IMPRESSED watching FF's slide and see no reason why they shouldn't try...I just don't think it's drifting (by MY definition of the word). I know WRC guys hate "drifters" for bastardizing their sport. I know Americans are pissed b/c they thought they were drifting 40+years ago. Who cares though. HAVE FUN. I will clap for you.

 

[Three5oZee]

ditto for me too.... it's technically not the same as RWD when u slide...not by far....because holding a slide and maintaining white smoke and angle on a long turn just wont happen on FWD unless its a tight corner giving the driver time to get back into a straitaway....and imagine the FWD holding a back to back slide ...i havent seen it....have you?

..now..on the other hand; i would say the FWD is in fact sliding...but heres the thing, one of the points in drifting is subtracted when the brake is applied. meaning for a FWD car it would be a failuer everytime because the e brake is your best friend in a deep corner. (no clutch drifting there)...and yes there are several deffinitions in drifting, although they all concern a RWD vehicle.

no one should judge a rear wheel driver as a bad drifter....judge him as a different drifter! ....but untill you get out of the FWD vehicle an slide in a RWD...you wont agree with the fact that your not truely sliding......................imagine an up hill drift in the mountains of Japan, you hit that e brake and i feel bad for anyone behind you..............

 

[Kenrik]

Really dude if you enjoy doing it with the FF then do it! the point is to have fun right? if you're planing on becomeing a FD driver (I doubt you are) then ditch the FF

 

[illphantasm]

oh yea and illphasm that just greazy being himself dont take hime serious lol

gotcha meng.

Hey, who cares what others say as long as you're having fun. Personally, untill a FWD car can connect turns and not straighten up or lose (much) speed, it aint drifting to me...and since that's physically impossible unless you're going downhill on a low-friction surface like grease or ice, I wouldn't call any FWD slides a drift. But w/e, I'm just another asshole with an opinion. Ignore me.
Wait, I don't want to discourage you anymore. FWIW, I'm thoroughly entertained AND IMPRESSED watching FF's slide and see no reason why they shouldn't try...I just don't think it's drifting (by MY definition of the word). I know WRC guys hate "drifters" for bastardizing their sport. I know Americans are pissed b/c they thought they were drifting 40+years ago. Who cares though. HAVE FUN. I will clap for you.

Harsh. Hope that wasn't sarcasm. I hope you guys don't think I'm some sort of noob, but I feel like you're coming at me as if I've made an unbiased opinion about drifting.

no one should judge a rear wheel driver as a bad drifter....judge him as a different drifter! ....but untill you get out of the FWD vehicle an slide in a RWD...you wont agree with the fact that your not truely sliding......................imagine an up hill drift in the mountains of Japan, you hit that e brake and i feel bad for anyone behind you..............

I don't think anyone's mentioned anything about RWD drifters being bad -- Unless you missed my "knife in a gunfight" analogy, I said that if I was ot take it seriously I would ionvest in an RWD vehicle. The obvious benefits I mentioned then are the facts that RWD is much more versatile in holding a slide or drift since its bieng pushed by the rear wheels. Of course, FWD can "slide" too, except of course its useless in say a wider turn. --The big ring at the Hialeah Speedway humiliated me; although I almost got into a slide that one time, either way, it was wet.
I've been able to connect turns and straighten up, as far as I know and recall from previous practice sessions.

Really dude if you enjoy doing it with the FF then do it!

I suppose I will. I guess its common sense (now) that I should just keep at it if I'm having fun. I hope nobody mistook me in thinking I had ambitions of being some sort of bandwagon noob, of which I'm not --or assumed I had some sort of super-dorifto ambition of being in Formula D, of which I don't but all I was just trying to say was I wish people would let off the whole "FF isn't drifitng" thing and just let it be. I'm sure you all saw how fast that one "innocent" thread became a sort of flame war, as this one looks like it's becoming to be regardless of my harmless intent.

I thought I was bringing "variety" into the scene, but apparently not with the responses I've been seeing.

 

[Alchemist XL]

everyone has their own opinions of drifting, thats why some people still drive ae86s and think they are the best drift car in the world.. it's all a matter of opinion. pulling the ebrake is ***-dragging in whatever car you use, fwd or rwd or awd.. since everyone and their moms are so fascinated with clutch kick, i guess if the rear end doesnt slide out from a clutch kick its not a real drift car therefor it cant drift.. and that whole dirt argument about its not drifting cuz its on dirt, well i guess no one was drifting at the most recent Orlando event because there was dirt all over that track.. everyone has their own 2 cents about everything, some people say that drifting in the rain isn't considered drifting at all, even though it takes a lot more technique than drifting in the dry due to the random traction loss if one patch was wetter than the other opposed to all dry. but this thread is just going to go on and on about what people think and in the end no ones going to be happy and Im going to ban everyone.

 

[rwdrift]

Ban yourself.

- Erick
PS: you got nextel now eh? Expect random calls. RawR.

 

[Three5oZee]

....an there it is...i appologize for that, i misread your statement on if you took it serious you would get a RWD vehicle....i have respect for you attempting the same slides in your FWD because when u do get a RWD your gonna have the concept down...and may discover new techniques that you can benifet from...

Respect from me!

J

 

[j0nes]

you already know you get mad props from me...being a former FF slider

 

[Tonymac]

Harsh. Hope that wasn't sarcasm. I hope you guys don't think I'm some sort of noob, but I feel like you're coming at me as if I've made an unbiased opinion about drifting.

No sarcasm. I'm just saying, as long as you're having fun, why do you care whether or not I (or others) consider it a true drift (like I said, until ff's can connect a series of turns in a constant slide without losing much speed, it's not "drifting" to me)? I have seen you slide and I know it takes skill so I am impressed by that AND the amount of commitment fwd "drifters" have to their cars. Rock out mang, it's bad asss! I wasn't trying to be harsh or mean or discouraging in any way; I'm not that kinda metro.

 

[johnpaul parkerson]

everyone has their own opinions of drifting, thats why some people still drive ae86s and think they are the best drift car in the world.. it's all a matter of opinion. pulling the ebrake is ***-dragging in whatever car you use, fwd or rwd or awd.. since everyone and their moms are so fascinated with clutch kick, i guess if the rear end doesnt slide out from a clutch kick its not a real drift car therefor it cant drift.. and that whole dirt argument about its not drifting cuz its on dirt, well i guess no one was drifting at the most recent Orlando event because there was dirt all over that track.. everyone has their own 2 cents about everything, some people say that drifting in the rain isn't considered drifting at all, even though it takes a lot more technique than drifting in the dry due to the random traction loss if one patch was wetter than the other opposed to all dry. but this thread is just going to go on and on about what people think and in the end no ones going to be happy and Im going to ban everyone.

my ae86 isnt the best drift car in the world.............. i guess its time to buy a 240.....j/k NEVER

 

[Juan Henao]

I'm just happy with what I have, and want to have fun with it.

thats what counts. As far as I know drifting started cuse it was fun to do, no matter what car was to be used.
I don't think Keiichi Tschiya said I'm going to drift so I can make a a living out of it, make videos and be know as the drift king, he started it cuse he saw his favorite race car driver race and at times the *** of the car would slide out and it look fun and cool so he started to do it and soon it became a fun thing to do and look at him now, but it all started with heart and love for the sport and thats why we are all here.
As long as you are not a banwagoneer and drift cuse you think it will make you kool, its ok just practice to get better at it and have fun.
F**K what people say!

 

[Silky Johnson]

YOu've Been HAd My Respect Bro...Rocking Out In HIaleah..It T ook Guts Cause All Around The Fence PEople Would Just be FF's Cant Drift And At The End Of The Day Every1 Was Impressed...Even Me... At FIrst I THought It Was Joke But Then I Started TO Get Impressed...And Now I ALso HAve A HAnd ME Down... A Jeep...Yes A Bodyroll King And Yet It Still Tends To Kick Out Even With My Massive Bodyroll...But As A Lot Of People Mentioned If Your Doing It For Fun...Who Cares Rock Out!

 

[illphantasm]

some people say that drifting in the rain isn't considered drifting at all, even though it takes a lot more technique than drifting in the dry due to the random traction loss if one patch was wetter than the other opposed to all dry.

yea, to be honest, I feel like it's the opposite for me -- I always *hope* that there's rain, or at least some wet surface during an event (and at the last two, there was) because I feel it's actually easier to get my bum loose on a wet surface than on a dry surface. But of course there are the trade-offs -- dry seems harder for me to let loose but the understeering effects are less harsh, and in the wet, vice versa. I agree with your post wholheartedly, bro.

....an there it is...i appologize for that, i misread your statement on if you took it serious you would get a RWD vehicle....

No problem at all man, I felt there was a misunderstanding and I hoped I didn't address it rudely. I try not to be too defensive because FF, as well as everything else have faults that speak for themself. I wish I could afford a Z like yours, must be an elegant car to romp in .

you already know you get mad props from me...being a former FF slider

hell yea man, thanks for that -- its as I said though, I wish it would be less of a controversy but I suppose settling an existing controversy will only start another.

No sarcasm. I'm just saying, as long as you're having fun, why do you care whether or not I (or others) consider it a true drift (like I said, until ff's can connect a series of turns in a constant slide without losing much speed, it's not "drifting" to me)? I have seen you slide and I know it takes skill so I am impressed by that AND the amount of commitment fwd "drifters" have to their cars. Rock out mang, it's bad asss! I wasn't trying to be harsh or mean or discouraging in any way; I'm not that kinda metro.

No doubt, bro, I just was unsure about it -- I appreciate the respect, and of course, FF's will NEVER ''drift'' as proficient as an RWD vehicles, which is NOT an opinion, but fact, simply because of the "propulsion" from the driving wheels being in the rear. I can connect turns, but i'll be damned if I can do it without losing some speed from the loss of traction on my driving tires and my lack of ponies.

thats what counts. As far as I know drifting started cuse it was fun to do, no matter what car was to be used.

Amen. Honestly I think I've jsut been letting the masses get to me. Called your friend about the windshield the other day. He offered me a great price, thanks a ton, Juan.

YOu've Been HAd My Respect Bro...Rocking Out In HIaleah..It T ook Guts Cause All Around The Fence PEople Would Just be FF's Cant Drift And At The End Of The Day Every1 Was Impressed...Even Me... At FIrst I THought It Was Joke But Then I Started TO Get Impressed...And Now I ALso HAve A HAnd ME Down... A Jeep...Yes A Bodyroll King And Yet It Still Tends To Kick Out Even With My Massive Bodyroll...But As A Lot Of People Mentioned If Your Doing It For Fun...Who Cares Rock Out!

Hey Jeeps can rip it too, but of course, you'll have to address the bodyroll and ride height. I'd love to see a lowered Jeep rally / drift machine, personally.
And yea man, thanks for the support form you too, at first I just wanted to do it because my friends thought it would be cool for me to sign up and do it at the track, and well, I guess I killed two birds with one stone there by learning a ton about my vehicle, and having the time of my life, and hey, I guess impressing a few people as well.

Whew! I think I'm finally caught up now. Thanks for everyone's input so far, I appreciate it wholly. I suppose it's logical that I should keep doing what my little heart desires, but it does sadden me to see people be so narrow-minded like in those other forums. I'm glad its not like that here though. But I can't wait till FF Corolla v.20 comes into full effect -- if I was entertaining last time, I'll have a few more tricks under my hood and sleeves for everyone to see.