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Bmw Is The Best Over All Car Period. How Many Nissans Have Won Any Scca Events Wait Yep Its None Which Car Has The Most Weight Penalties In Scca Wait Yes Its Bmw Which Car Has The Most Rpm Penalties In Scca Wait I Know Its Bmw Which Car Is The Only Car In Scca That Is Not Allowed To Drive 50/50 Weight Distribution Yep Its Not Nissan Its Bmw, Why Is That??????? Mister Macaluso??? I'm Calling You Out BIATCH!!!
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehe
ter-tech said:
There are so many and have been so many classes in SCCA...it's an organization, not a class. Do you know every single restriction/requirement/rule for each class - since their inception? Neither do I and until you do, your argument sucks! Where do you even get these "faq"? lol
You know how I feel abt BMW's (for those that don't, I contemplate selling my S-chassis for an E36 M3 - or RX7 - every day) but my point, which you can't deny (well, you are the most hard-headed person I know so maybe you can/will deny it), is that no Nissan's winning at a European drift event (where the vast, vast, VAST majority of entrants were BMWs) means absolutely nothing! So basically, my point was that Antti's point was moot. /end discussion
JiujitsuDrift
Driver
Why can't anyone understand that BMW is popular in Germany because there are a lot of them? And 240/Silvia are popular in America/Japan because there are a lot of them? Besides, when it comes to fully built drift/race cars it hardly matters what you start out with, just how much money/time/effort you have in it. My 2 cents.
BLADDER_MASTER
is no more
JiujitsuDrift said:
+1
the "faq's" come from scca drivers which we spoke with over at St. pete. The guy who makes the rules is a Honda/Acura lover and he is pissed off since they are not winning. They are facts not fiction and the class I'm talking about is touring, maybe you've heard of it ??? And my arguement doesn't suck yours does thou. You know it as well as everybody in here that 240sx has very little if any racing back ground. I wonder why?? Since according to you it is the best car out there. Never the less you are right that BMW winning doesn't mean anything in Europe since they live in mud huts and they don't know anything about cars, driving, electricity, technology, freedom, etc...
Well the reality is that 21 nissans pre regged and only 14 BMW's the result are what Antti posted. heheheheheheeh
On another note how many FD events has Nissan S-13 or S-14 won? compared to pontiac, mustang, viper, Corolla, rx7, 350Z? Wait I think its none or maybe one.
S-13 is just a good bang for the buck period. as a drifters starter car propably the best, since you need very little money to make one driftable.
Well the reality is that 21 nissans pre regged and only 14 BMW's the result are what Antti posted. heheheheheheeh
On another note how many FD events has Nissan S-13 or S-14 won? compared to pontiac, mustang, viper, Corolla, rx7, 350Z? Wait I think its none or maybe one.
S-13 is just a good bang for the buck period. as a drifters starter car propably the best, since you need very little money to make one driftable.
yeah, but how many of those bmw's had sr's in them???
ter-tech said:
Harri, lookup winning records of JGTC, plenty of Nissan S-chassis have won. SCCA doesn't allow for foreign engine swaps so it's almost impossible for an S-chassis to be competative in this country since the KA sucks balls (regardless of what some people think). I think NASA has some loophole in their rules that would allow SR20de powered 240's to race but only in the SE-R cup...hardly anything to brag about. The suspension off a S-car is that of a Skyline which does, on the other hand, have plenty of tried and true races under its belt. Those faqs about those rules are nothing more than hearsay. If there wasn't so many classes of scca I'd look up every rule for you. The only bias rule I've ever seen in SCCA are the restrictions on rotary powered cars.
My point, if you go back and read it, is 100% accurate.
http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/06-prr-article2-World-Chalenge.pdf
Touring class rulebook...not one special rule for BMW's.
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Takakumi_suti
Driver
that message was for rwdrift, why everybody is reading it here, and why all the excitment.
And to dori dori...never mind.
and do google image search for Fiat 125p WOW, this is someting different. Did this car also beat all the nissans? Damn...
and guys leave Anthony alone, I know also it's not the car, it's the driver...
And to dori dori...never mind.
and do google image search for Fiat 125p WOW, this is someting different. Did this car also beat all the nissans? Damn...
and guys leave Anthony alone, I know also it's not the car, it's the driver...
First off, Anthony, why do you always get on some righteous totally serious rant on this forum, trying to be the voice of reason or whatever and going on about people starting **** etc.
WHO CARES,
you sound like youre 40 when youre talking like that, let people go at it, its fun!!!
Fun like this, just watch:
You should probably consider cars like the M3 CSL --$70,000 (first OEM car to use combination steel. aluminum, and bonded carbon fiber for mass production),
Or maybe the M3 GT-R, but not too many of them were built and the prices went way up. I think original price was $120,000
But those arent sold in America, just like the Skyline isn't sold here, so let's compare the best Nissan has to offer, vs the best BMW can muster. What can I get at my local nissan dealer today? 350Z track model? Ok deal, and I'll stop by the BMW dealer and grab a Competition package M3 with the SMG transmission, which shifts faster than a Ferrari Enzo.
Wow, my Z makes 300hp from 3.5L while my BMW makes 333hp from 3.2L, thats just amazing.
But wait a sec, the BMW costs more hmmmmm... maybe that has something to do with 5 leather seats instead of 2 cloth ones, or computerized sequential gearbox, or aluminum body panels, or hydraulic variable differential or 6 throttle bodies or a useable trunk or..... yea you get the picture (I hope). You might also educate yourself about what sort of Nürburgring times both of these cars are capable of.
I think some of you have smoked a bit too much JDM GranTurismo crack. All these kids in America who would take an elephant c0ck in the @55 to own a skyline are RETARDED, it's not that great of a car.
It's really funny how much better of a car the Toyota Supra is but kids here dont love it because it isnt some rare JDM bul|sh|t.
I'm honestly a pretty unbiased person when it comes to cars and I know them inside and out from every technical standpoint. The Skyline is cool, its quick, and I really like the way R33 and R32's look. They're just plain not as good of a car as a Supra, but they have legend status in japan because it was the first car to have TT AWD 4WS Inline6 (perfection in the mind of the 80's performance car designer), the original 'Godzilla' car.
Now on to the S-chassis, racing, SCCA, JGTC etc etc.
if any of you fools had ever seen JGTC cars in person or detailed pictures inside and out, you would know that they are what is more commonly referred to as 'silhouette cars'. Please google that term and get familiar with it. basically JGTC cars only resemble the real car. They used to be required to maintain the same suspension design and mostly stock body shells, but everyone pushed the limits. The silvias were and ARE pretty much tube-frames with the unibody still tagging along for the ride on top of what was/IS fully custom designed suspension.
Or how bout that AE86 that ran in JGTC all the way until 2001. It was basically a AE86 shell strapped onto an Indycar with the engine moved up front. It broke most of the rules, but was allowed because of the heritage the Ae86 has in Japan.
These days the only requirement is that the cars retain the original shell from the firewall to the rear-bulkhead (or rollbar in most cars). That's it, in front of that or behind it, the car can be purely tubeframe, and even within the 'original' unibody it's all tubes, just cleverly attached to the shell.
If you guys want to compare cars you have to compare similar things here and know what you're talking about, and for JGTC, the only comparable european cars are modern DTM cars, which are one step further than JGTC. DTM requires a full factory outer shell, but the ENTIRE structure is computer designed tubeframe. The drivers sit nearly in the middle and are almost in the back seat of the real car. They all run a spec rear mounted x-trac trans and the suspension is basically F1 stuff. The Audi's dont even have Audi engines since they didn't have a V8 that met the rule requirements, so they have a fully custom built engine, that is based on....... a BMW block.
Anthony is right about the 240sx and SCCA not allowing engine swaps for most competitive classes. But keep in mind that JGTC seems to allow the Japanese car teams to develop their cars more highly, and the only Factory efforts in the series come from..... duh JAPANESE manufacturers. Vipers (factory 500hp) are forced to run in the GT300 class with insanely small intake restrictors to limit their hp to around 300-350. And the yellowcorn McLaren F1 runs severely penalized for having a carbon chassis and also has an intake restrictor
Harri is also right about SCCA World challenge touring class and how badly they handicap the BMW's. (the handicaps change each event according to the race director, but usually the BMW's are running less rpm, worse weight dist, more minimum weight, and narrower/harder tires than the competition)
If touring class said:
1-This is minimum weight,
2-maximum tire size,
3-mandatory intake restrictor size
and gave no penalties for wins,
the BMW's would dominate, the the only competition coming from maybe the Mercedes C230
WHY? the BMW's have better weight distribution than the main competition (Acuras), stiffer chassis, and a more torquey engine.
I personally do not believe in penalty racing classes. Racing should be that you build a car to a rulebook. Everyone has the same rules, same specs, same minimums and maximums and they show up on race day, pass tech and race. That's the way BTCC was and eventually they banned the RWD cars (BMW's) because they wre dominating.
Oh, and if you want to go racing, the only manufacturer that will provide you more support for a factory built racecar than BMW is Porsche.
But hey, what do I know, I drive a diesel truck, I own two S13's and want to buy a Toyota Previa..... Typical insecure biased BMW asshole here.
-Sean
WHO CARES,
you sound like youre 40 when youre talking like that, let people go at it, its fun!!!
Fun like this, just watch:
Compare? that's right they ARENT comparable. Even Nissan knows that they can't compete with BMW and specifically released the Infiniti brand to do battle with the likes of BMW. Have you even been in a new BMW ? Do yourself a favor and go to a dealer, maybe you will understand after that. And let it be known that BMW manufactures luxury SPORTCARS, not sporty LUXURY cars like lexus and Mercedes. BMW is the ONLY manufacturer to offer a large sedan in the USA with a MANUAL transmission.RICKY SILEIGHTY said:
McLaren is a McLaren, made in England by the company originally founded by the late great Bruce McLaren. It uses a BMW engine (hrmm I wonder why?), but it is NOT a BMW, it's simply the greatest drivers car ever built.RICKY SILEIGHTY said:
You should probably consider cars like the M3 CSL --$70,000 (first OEM car to use combination steel. aluminum, and bonded carbon fiber for mass production),
Or maybe the M3 GT-R, but not too many of them were built and the prices went way up. I think original price was $120,000
But those arent sold in America, just like the Skyline isn't sold here, so let's compare the best Nissan has to offer, vs the best BMW can muster. What can I get at my local nissan dealer today? 350Z track model? Ok deal, and I'll stop by the BMW dealer and grab a Competition package M3 with the SMG transmission, which shifts faster than a Ferrari Enzo.
Wow, my Z makes 300hp from 3.5L while my BMW makes 333hp from 3.2L, thats just amazing.
But wait a sec, the BMW costs more hmmmmm... maybe that has something to do with 5 leather seats instead of 2 cloth ones, or computerized sequential gearbox, or aluminum body panels, or hydraulic variable differential or 6 throttle bodies or a useable trunk or..... yea you get the picture (I hope). You might also educate yourself about what sort of Nürburgring times both of these cars are capable of.
It honestly doesn't matter. Like other people said in this thread is about the driver, and also when a car is fully prepared as a drift car, almost anything can be competitive (don't think so? wait 6months and see my next project)RICKY SILEIGHTY said:
If your 'pounding' is going to involve drifting, please invite me to watch, and make sure you take out a good insurance policy on that 911 because you obviously have no idea what youre getting into. Short wheelbase is one thing (about 93inch) but rear engine is a whole new world and I promise you it's not easy. Aside from that, Porsche's are some of the most robust cars in the world and WILL take one hell of a beating, especially the air-cooled cars.RICKY SILEIGHTY said:If I had a choice I would take a porshe GT3 or 996 turbo and pound the crap out of any BMW and yes I know its also a German car
I think some of you have smoked a bit too much JDM GranTurismo crack. All these kids in America who would take an elephant c0ck in the @55 to own a skyline are RETARDED, it's not that great of a car.
It's really funny how much better of a car the Toyota Supra is but kids here dont love it because it isnt some rare JDM bul|sh|t.
I'm honestly a pretty unbiased person when it comes to cars and I know them inside and out from every technical standpoint. The Skyline is cool, its quick, and I really like the way R33 and R32's look. They're just plain not as good of a car as a Supra, but they have legend status in japan because it was the first car to have TT AWD 4WS Inline6 (perfection in the mind of the 80's performance car designer), the original 'Godzilla' car.
Now on to the S-chassis, racing, SCCA, JGTC etc etc.
if any of you fools had ever seen JGTC cars in person or detailed pictures inside and out, you would know that they are what is more commonly referred to as 'silhouette cars'. Please google that term and get familiar with it. basically JGTC cars only resemble the real car. They used to be required to maintain the same suspension design and mostly stock body shells, but everyone pushed the limits. The silvias were and ARE pretty much tube-frames with the unibody still tagging along for the ride on top of what was/IS fully custom designed suspension.
Or how bout that AE86 that ran in JGTC all the way until 2001. It was basically a AE86 shell strapped onto an Indycar with the engine moved up front. It broke most of the rules, but was allowed because of the heritage the Ae86 has in Japan.
These days the only requirement is that the cars retain the original shell from the firewall to the rear-bulkhead (or rollbar in most cars). That's it, in front of that or behind it, the car can be purely tubeframe, and even within the 'original' unibody it's all tubes, just cleverly attached to the shell.
If you guys want to compare cars you have to compare similar things here and know what you're talking about, and for JGTC, the only comparable european cars are modern DTM cars, which are one step further than JGTC. DTM requires a full factory outer shell, but the ENTIRE structure is computer designed tubeframe. The drivers sit nearly in the middle and are almost in the back seat of the real car. They all run a spec rear mounted x-trac trans and the suspension is basically F1 stuff. The Audi's dont even have Audi engines since they didn't have a V8 that met the rule requirements, so they have a fully custom built engine, that is based on....... a BMW block.
Anthony is right about the 240sx and SCCA not allowing engine swaps for most competitive classes. But keep in mind that JGTC seems to allow the Japanese car teams to develop their cars more highly, and the only Factory efforts in the series come from..... duh JAPANESE manufacturers. Vipers (factory 500hp) are forced to run in the GT300 class with insanely small intake restrictors to limit their hp to around 300-350. And the yellowcorn McLaren F1 runs severely penalized for having a carbon chassis and also has an intake restrictor
Harri is also right about SCCA World challenge touring class and how badly they handicap the BMW's. (the handicaps change each event according to the race director, but usually the BMW's are running less rpm, worse weight dist, more minimum weight, and narrower/harder tires than the competition)
If touring class said:
1-This is minimum weight,
2-maximum tire size,
3-mandatory intake restrictor size
and gave no penalties for wins,
the BMW's would dominate, the the only competition coming from maybe the Mercedes C230
WHY? the BMW's have better weight distribution than the main competition (Acuras), stiffer chassis, and a more torquey engine.
I personally do not believe in penalty racing classes. Racing should be that you build a car to a rulebook. Everyone has the same rules, same specs, same minimums and maximums and they show up on race day, pass tech and race. That's the way BTCC was and eventually they banned the RWD cars (BMW's) because they wre dominating.
Oh, and if you want to go racing, the only manufacturer that will provide you more support for a factory built racecar than BMW is Porsche.
But hey, what do I know, I drive a diesel truck, I own two S13's and want to buy a Toyota Previa..... Typical insecure biased BMW asshole here.
-Sean
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freethinker said:
Hey, **** you. I am having fun.
freethinker said:
BMW and Porsche are the #1 reasons for the amt of restrictions in place for most series today. They've always read between the lines to one up the competition and better their chances for victory in the past and as a result, shot themselves in the foot. Just look at what BMW had to do to win with the E46 M3 in LeMans...drop in a V8 which never came in the production model. New, more stringent rules come out, BMW loses.
As far as those American touring cars go, I don't even think BWM should be in that class. They should man up and enter GT class which is loaded with cars more it's competition. If C6's had a lesser tuned V8 model and appeared in the Touring class, I'd expect the same thing (restriction wise). But hey, excuses are like assholes...
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dori dori said:
Good!
dori dori said:
Are you familiar with WHY they had to do that?? The porsches were 3.8L cars vs the 3.2L BMW's, and if you havent noticed, the 996 does have 'just a lil' aerodynamic advantage. The BMW's lost because IMSA/ALMS isn't some faggot racing class that believes in making penalties for a successful car. BMW applied to run the 4.0 V8 and was granted allowance based on the fact that they were preparing to build I think 400 production V8 M3 GT-R's. They did make production GT-R's but not fast enough to meet the ALMS regulations, so the cars werent allowed to compete for the next year. The cars sould have been eleigible the following year since the traditional production requirements had been met, but BMW had already kicked some *** and didn't care any more. And the BMW's had no super advantage as far as the car (.2L extra displacement only made up for the fact that the car is a sedan and doesnt have the super low Porsche Cg.), but it was a factory car and Porsche only has 'factory supported' teams.
Also Porsche isn't so much the reason for regulation, as their factory team from the 70's-80's was; Team Penske. team Penske is quite possibly the most innovative, best, most controversial race team in history, and everyone seems to hate it. Are we all forgetting that this is COMPETITION? Creative reading of the rulebook has consistently been the key to victory and it's up to the individual series to decide what leeway is granted with rule interepretations, or to write rules strictly and clearly. This is competition, battle, WAR, the goal is to win, you cant blame any certain group for the way rules are because anyone would have done it if they thought of it. At least BMW and Porsche havent routinely resorted to flat out cheating like so many Nascar teams have bene busted for.
dori dori said:
Do you realize that the BMW's in WC touring are not M3's??? I really hope so. BMW ran for a number of years in WC GT after they left ALMS, with the very successful team PTG running 3 and sometimes 4 M3's. They were successful too, until some moron decided that it's totally legit to drop a CTS shell over a Corvette body and run it. The CTS is a whole other rant, but suffice it to say, that car should be VERY VERY illegal in that class, but WC was so keen to have Cadillac they they allowed this retarded way modified car to enter, and guess what, it lapped the ENTIRE FIELD in it's debut at Sebring. They didnt just read between the lines of the rulebook, they threw it in the trash because they knew SCCA would allow them anything since they wanted Caddy in the series.......
But back to touring, the BMW sedans in touring are 325i and 325Ci, that means they are 2.5 Liter engines. Their main competition are 2.4L Acura TSX's, 2.0L RSX's and 2.3L Mazda6's The TSX's in particular have a longer stroke engine and so should be a bit more torquey, but SCCA attempts to level everything, and the penalizes when someone wins anyway.
So there you go, BMW 'manned up' a long time ago and has been a staple of the touring class, as well as running M3's in GT for a very long time. The fact that a 3.2L sedan is able to even compete with full on sportscars like Vipers, Corvettes etc has always been intersting.
So is that 'man up' enough for you, or would you rather see BMW run a 318i (1.8L) sedan against the 8.3L vipers? Would that be more fair?
-Sean
Some pics of the GT-R that apparently doesnt really exist.
freethinker said:
OK so they cheated b/c they couldn't be competative without producing a real world ringer...which they failed to do within the time they promised. After that everything's speculation - in other words, a waste of time discussing. As for Porsche and Penske - to my knowledge Porsche provided them with plenty of knowledge and support through those years...factory cars or not, there was factory effort. Another discussion another time though.
freethinker said:
If you think BMW should have been able to run w/ v8's in ALMS b/c Porsche's have lower cg's, 3.8 ltr engines, and yadda yadda yadd; then be consistant and side with the restrictions. Acura and Mazda have one thing in common...FWD which is a huge handicap vs a RWD as everyone knows. There wouldn't be much of a competition or fan base if every car was a FWD except one...the team that always wins. Races would be meaningless then.
If GT3's are competing in GT class with Vette's and Vipers...and a Caddy, so should BMW's M3. If it can't compete they should make a better car, bigger engine, or forget about competing until they can.
freethinker said:
Ooooh, sarcasm. Sean't getting hot in the *** now!
So the V8 did appear eventually. Sorry I can't keep up with every make/model/year/color/part of the global automotive market. I did research just now though and it seems that 10 were made...far cry from 400.