What makes a good drift car?

[MA70witBoost]

Ok, i know that its not so much the car, but the driver that makes a good slide... But i want to know what factors make a good drift car? I know FR's are great for it, thats a given. But ride height, tires, power, etc. What makes a good drift car? MasterRex, a new member to SFLDrifters asked "How balanced is the front to rear weight ratio for a Lexus SC300...?" Soarers are drift cars. Yet i haven't really seen too many people on here that slide them. I imagine that the price tag could be one reason, but his weight ratio question makes sense. After crashing my 240, I've decided to build another 240, as little factory parts as possible... well, with the exception of the KA under the hood, that wont change. But this project is going all out. I want opinions. Im a noob in the sport of drifting, but like most on here, love the sport. What factors of a slide can be controled by the cars tuning (such as my understeer problem)? What after market parts are esential for making a good drift car? What parts help? Recomended parts? Im sure you guys get the topic of the thread. Comments Please.

 

[JDMdrifterCT9]

Most of the SC's are autos. And the price is high.

 

[MA70witBoost]

Yeah, the price tag i imagined since it was a Lexus. The tranny i wasn't sure about but i guess since its a luxury coupe it should come automatic (evil automatics ). I didn't know about the body weight issue tho... Everyone says that the Soarer is a heavy car. I've never really been in one. But still... Back on topic. What makes a good drift car? I've heard about people getting wider tires in the back than in the front. I imagine this is to have more surface area on the back (i think it is just for FR's) so that the car will have better traction so it'll get the power to the ground easier. But since were supposed to break traction, shouldn't we get normal width tires on the back? Or once again, the ride height issue? Or suspension tuning? I didn't post this under the technical part of the forum because wasn't sure if it belonged but i guess i should have, seeing as this is going to get pretty technical (i hope),

 

[ienjoydrifting]

FR and a good driver is all you really need. A good driver can adapt to just about any car. As for the SC300 they are nice, first mod will have to be COILOVERS tho due to its weight and then youll need more steering angle. Then it will be a good drift car. So figure 5k for the car 1k for the coilovers, and 300 on steering parts. 6300 bucks for a nice slightly different drift car.

 

[MA70witBoost]

Ok, i know that all you really need is an FR and to be a good driver... think i posted that when i started this thread. But what helps in making a good drift car. What eliminates the S13's understeer problem? No ones really answering the question. I know that the driver is an important factor in a drift, But this thread is about the car. Tips, sudgestions for tuning/bolting on mods.

 

[CarloSR]

Tips = Drift yor car.
Suggestion = On a drift course.
Bolting mods = Start with good tires, good suspension and good diff.

 

[MA70witBoost]

Tips = Drift yor car.
Suggestion = On a drift course.
Bolting mods = Start with good tires, good suspension and good diff.

Well i finally got the hang of drifting with my last 240. Sadly the seats i had installed in the car didn't really let me get the counter steer in so im not sure if i was doing it or not, but at the medians of the intersections i was sideways, and i didn't spin out too often through the drift... so im not sure. About the drift course... I've been wanting too. Hell, my desire to drift on a course is what ended up crashing my car. I had never crashed during a drift till i tried on a track.

hialiah speedway wasnt a safe place for the anxious drifters...

Okami was right... But whatever... You live, you learn. I've been dieing to find a nice track with no walls... hell, with nothing but dirt/grass around the track... that way if i **** up i really dont have anything to hit that'll pwn3d my car (again). I think the Irwindale Speedway is like that, but ****, thats all the **** over there in California! As far as bolt ons are concerned, I was concidering Tanabe Sustec Pro S-S Type II coilovers, Rotora 6 piston front, and 4 piston rear brake upgrades (comes with cross drilled/slotted rotors), I have an LSD here at my house that i bought off a friend, but im second guessing using it... Have to take apart the pumpkin, and take a look at the diff its self. Check the condition. As for power, got planned on having a KA24DET sitting under the hood. Im hoping im on the right track. As i said befor, this is a project car meaning sadly, I'll be riding around on a scooter till this project is done... and even when its done, its going to be a 0 mile KA24DET (able to handel 400hp daily) that needs to be broken in. I want this car to be just right. Tired of the motor problems of cheap cars so this ones going to be rebuilt... and while im at it, might as well do everything else to it too . I just want this car to be done right.

 

[S13 Slide]

S13s have an understeer problem in STOCK form...nissan built the car not as a sports car but as a "passenger" car (STUPID IMO) meaning nissan put soft suspenion and drivablity in mind, and those Honda sized, small and high offset stock wheels....with the right suspension , dampening, camber, sway bars, and all other suspension, the S13 changes into a VERY good handling car, as long as the suspension setting are correct!! (same for any other car)

What I think what makes a good drift car, at least my ideal car. is a car thats light but not too light weight...enough power to spin the rear tires but not 10000hp, just a nice even number for the car thats being used....IMO 300whp on an S13 is pleanty but maybe not so in D1, considering they have to drift in 4th gear most of the time...Keep in mind, if you daily drive your "drift car" having drift only settings will hurt you driving on the street, with weather, pot holes in the road and tons of other stuff.

I think what makes a good drift car are six things in order (Remember these are MY opinions)
1. TIRES (Cant stress this enough, it's the only thing that the car has on the ground. Plus I LOVE tires
2. Suspension
3. Differential
4. Power
5. Brakes (I have learned this way to many times)
6. Lightness

With those 5 things ANY FR can be a good drift car as long as the suspension setting are correct for the car and track. Of corse the driver will be handy at all times. I really dont think I answered your question exactly, but seeing as 90 percent of drifters on this forum drift the S chassis, it hard for anyone to acctually give a truthfully and exact answer to your question. Meaning, most of the drifters on this forum has ever acctually drifted 1,2,3, maybe 4 cars? So there answers will most likely be closer to the S chassis, as IMO the easiest chassis to drift on, but i also fall in the same catergory as stated above^.

A couple of my favorite drift cars I think I would like.
Toyota Chaser
Toyota Soarer
Toyota Altezza
Nissan S13 Silvia (haha thats a given, just love the car so much)
Nissan BNR34 Skyline (Nomuken Style)

The last two are preety biased. I would like to try and drift a Z32 I havent seen any one drift it nicely yet.

 

[MA70witBoost]

Thanks S13, your right, it doesn't exactly answer my question, but your answer is more along the lines of what i was looking for. You gave me a ball-park explination of what you concider the important factors of a good drift car to be.

Now... that being said, i still dont get how the different settings on the suspension work. I've been wondering that for a while. Most of you have been drifting for a while now and understand suspension basics better than I do. S13, how do tires affect a car while drifting? I know that less tread (ie. bald tires) help in the wheel spin department. But what about tire size/width? Camber, dampening... I know what camber is, but someone explain dampening for me. Hell, while they are at it, someone explain how camber hinders/helps a cars performance in a drift.

I also read in this blog that i got on my myspace that supposedly "27) You hate 4 lug on a rear-wheel-drive because of offsets." This is on a "You know you own a 240sx when..." But yeah, what exactly is the offset of the wheels? how does having a 4 lug wheel hub affect this? And once again, what does the offset of the wheels have to do with a drift?

I know that everything that has to do with the tires contact with the ground will affect a drift. Everything suspension, breaking, and power wise affects it. But i want to know/understand how everything works and affects a vehicles slide in order to get this all down. Im sure im asking for too much, but hopefully this will help to inform not only myself, but to answer any questions that anyone else might have.

 

[z4k]

I also read in this blog that i got on my myspace that supposedly "27) You hate 4 lug on a rear-wheel-drive because of offsets." This is on a "You know you own a 240sx when..." But yeah, what exactly is the offset of the wheels? how does having a 4 lug wheel hub affect this? And once again, what does the offset of the wheels have to do with a drift?

Good question. Id like to hear this!

Also no being good offsets means you do not look hard enough. I <3 Japan and their many offsets! I just got some nice 16 x 8 +16 offset. But here in america(Land of the HONDA/FWD) You cant find **** in offset until latly

 

[Alchemist XL]

man.. s13's have understeer problems? i never got that memo

 

[MA70witBoost]

Should i repost this thing to "What makes a good drift car BETTER?" The driver is a given factor in the drift. The driver is the one that controls all steering/throttle imput in the car. Your not telling me anything i dont allready know by saying that the driver makes a good drift car. Tires... How do tires affect the drift? I imagine that even if the tires have the most grip available, the car can still break traction if it has the power. Tire width... thats still something im not sure of. What makes a good balanced suspension? Im sure that its not just adding on every single aftermarket suspension part available for the car that will do this. COMMON!!! I CRAVE INFORMATION!

 

[MA70witBoost]

Ok... Good man, that was more along the lines of the kind of reply i was looking for. Ok, what about ride height? I was told that a higher ride height in the rear of the car would provide more body roll in the back (ie- make it easier to break traction). Any validity to this? Or is this bull?

 

[MasterRex]

This thread should be sticky'd. I spent about 5mins soaking up the information like a sponge.

I would like to add a question into this:
If a heavy car has a good weight balance, and it has enough 'oomph' to put it sideways, how does the momentum of the weight effect the drift angle? Can you keep a good angle with a heavy, yet balanced car?

 

[MA70witBoost]

This thread should be sticky'd. I spent about 5mins soaking up the information like a sponge.

I would like to add a question into this:
If a heavy car has a good weight balance, and it has enough 'oomph' to put it sideways, how does the momentum of the weight effect the drift angle? Can you keep a good angle with a heavy, yet balanced car?

Glad to hear that my thread's helping you out Rex. I figured it would help out a few people who wanted to know what was actually happening with their car while it was sideways. You ask me, its not enough to know how to do it, but to know whats happening while your doing it. Everyone feel free to throw all their questions in here if they want... It might answer some of my questions that i haven't thought of or someone else's. Oh Rex, heres a link that might help you a bit with the whole weight transfer issue... I did some searching befor and found this site on Drift Techniques... Feint Drifts are mainly about weight transfer... check it out @ Drift Session

I also read in this blog that i got on my myspace that supposedly "27) You hate 4 lug on a rear-wheel-drive because of offsets." This is on a "You know you own a 240sx when..." But yeah, what exactly is the offset of the wheels? how does having a 4 lug wheel hub affect this? And once again, what does the offset of the wheels have to do with a drift?

Restating the post i had made befor... What about the offsets? Are wheel offsets just for show or does it provide some sort of performance to the vehicel? If i got this right, what i imagine the offset of a wheel to be is the area of lip around the rim. but if so, how would having a 4 lug wheel hub affect this?

for drifting Coilovers are great, (more angle)tie-rods, adjust. tc rods are a must. in my opinion. the first mods for a drifter should be. good ENGINE and TRANNY MOUNTS. some decent shock/springs combo, or coilovers, VLSD or LSD, good grip tires in the front, ****ty tires in the rear, also the rear toe out by a least a 1 degree, that will make the car brake loose easily, like that you will be able to get used to how the car acts while going sideways. Also racing seat or a seat that will hold you in place, and if you can a good after market clutch. those are in my opinion some of the things that make a car a better drift car.

Also, now that i re-read the thread... Whats the difference between an LSD and a VLSD? Hell, whats the difference between a 2 way LSD and a 2.5 way LSD? The coilovers i get, tie-rods i imagine allow your tires to turn more (hence the more angle), the motor/tranny mount issue i figure is to limit the vibration in the motor/tranny hence allowing you to throw the gears easier without slipping as much. what are adjustable tc rods? what exactly do they do?

 

[240SicknessX]

i dont know how the hell offset its self helps or hurts your drifting abilities, on the other hand various offsets in different wheel widths allow you to run a wide tire in the rear, or a stretched narrow tire with out clearance issues.

A heavier car is slower to the drivers imputs! I have "drifted" my car with 3 people, 2 extra tire in the back, with all kinds of atleast 100lb crap in the trunk with a full tank of gas. i weighed my car a couple weeks ago at (automatic transmission+turbo setup) 2900lbs with very little gas. add 550lbs with driver and passengers, another 125 for my loaded down trunk, and 100lbs for 14 gallons of gas. My s14 weighed close to 3700 lbs that night. The agility of the car went to 0, my imputs to the car were sluggish slow. IT sucked. Now if i had my car in track condition it would weigh 2950ish with me in it. 800lbs lighter is simply amazing. You can go faster into turns with out loosing control or taking some obsean line. The car is much more responsive to your imputs and you can adjust your speed and angle faster, more accuratly.

In Theory you could adjust the amount of grip you have to the amount of weight\ inertia that is generated by the car to gain the same balence between the tires and weight. but then with all that grip you would have to travel at redicilous speeds to initiate \ maintain a drift. It simply would be too fast, things would happen too fast and if possible it would take a long time to adjust to the way the car behaves. Because none of us here have a track to practise on everyweek, 80% of our experiance is gained on the street. Trying to learn on the street with that much grip is out of hand and damn near impossible, i dont care how much time you put into it. I am struggeling my self to adapt my techniques to slide these 260 treadwear 245 50 16's the same manner that i could slide a 195 NA. I would have to say that the weirdest thing about "drifting" with as much grip in the rear as i do is that you are accelerating so much though the turn. This acceration, changing the speed of your slide in the middle of your drift also changes how much lateral grip you have, try to calculate all of this along with your steering imputs to get in that 2 lane exit is nerve racking and difficult.

Lighter cars are just easier\ more practical\ better\ for everything about drift. Thats why the larger vehicals in professional competition drifting use fiber glass doors, carbon fiber hoods, trunks ect, and lexan windows. With these kinds of modifications i am pretty sure they can achive atleast a 2900lb weight.

 

[MasterRex]

Another question has come to mind:

What role does wheel size play in the scheme of drifting? Will smaller wheels make drifting easier? Will larger wheels slow you down?

 

[J-Fiend138]

O.K. first off wheel size is important in performance period, the bigger(heavier) the wheel is the more effort it takes to make the wheel spin.

Bro you want a hint here it is: get in the S13, find a nice open space and use your e-brake. Once you learn to slide with the e-brake the rest will come along little by little, with practice and concentration of course. Do just as Uras said tires are the most important, but before you buy any special tires tune up your car, bleed the brake fluid and refill it and change your brake pads.

Do the same with your power steering and your clutch fluid. By now your S13's fluids should be YUCKY. You have no idea how fast the power steering system heats up on these cars making it hard to get the response of the steering system.

Next try to get an understanding an idea on how to initiate your drift with the e-brake, try to break the traction the same way with other techniques like clutch kicking, weight transfer believe me practice in the car, being comfortable behind the wheel is the most important factor.

BTW a VLSD is a Viscous(it uses fluid to lock the differential)Limited Slip Differential

There is no 2.5 way LSD, 1 way LSD means that the differential only locks under acceleration, 1.5 way means the same except the diff also puts half of the effort during deceleration, and a 2 way diff locks the wheel during acceleration and deceleration. Keep in mind there are many variations of each like a clutch type LSD(basically it works like your clutch by using clutches packed together in the diff to lock that side of the diff, Viscous like I said before, Torsen aka helical LSD uses a system known as TorqueSensing helical gears.

***edit*** I almost forgot to answer this one: As for what role camber plays in drifting, here you go. By changing you camber you can change how much of your tire makes contact with the ground.

And to answer your first question: Good LSD will make you drift but it doesn't make you any good at it. But if you want to Drift the Lexus SC300/400(Soarer) the LSD is a must to transfer that giant body around. Then look into some coilovers and the car will be fun but it needs some more power to move that obese body efficiently which is why it's not a popular drift car, forget about the price in Japan there not as expensive as here and yet they are rare tosee drifting except for the good 'ol Osaka V.I.P. drifters they are amazing

GUYS FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME AS I KNOW I MADE SOME MISTAKES, BECAUSE THERE WERE ABOUT 5 DIFFERENT QUESTIONS I WANTED TO ANSWER AT THE SAME TIME

 

[MA70witBoost]

First of all, Id like to thank S13 Grip, Uras of the East, 240SicknessX, and a recent addition to my thread, Nelvis138. Thats the kind of information i was hoping to find. Thanks a bunch guys. Thus far, the information provided by you guys has been great. Very helpful. On a more inquisitive note... what are TC Rods? I've heard of tension rods, and things like that... and i imagine they are the same, aren't they? How do these help? Parts such as Front and Rear Strut bars I understand. They hold the chassis of the car together through the strut assemblies. Sway bars i kind of understand. I figure they serve the same purpose but im not exactly sure on that. I think with this question asked, ive pretty much covered the majority of suspension parts used in drifting. If there are any that i've missed, someone please inform me. Thank you!

 

[Alchemist XL]

tension control rods.. look like microphones on a 240sx stock.. hit a curb and they break.. then when you brake they flex and you go all sorts of ways but the right one