Ka Question

oye tony tu estas parkiao go sr is the best motor ka suck the blow all the time lol
Click to expand...
So do sr's, it's a never ending argument let's drop this...Who are we kidding it's all about...rb>ka+sr. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
For the money you will spend on an sr swap done correctly...I would personally buy an rb. People always have their preferences.
Rb20det swap 1400
timing belt,pulleys/water pump 250
Intercooler 300
e-fans 150
r32 x-member 50
rb25 turbo 250
stock boost-250-260hp
wiring...easy
 
It's not an argument, it's a BS contest. An argument would be if scientific, empirical data on both engines would be compared against one another, from which strengths and weaknesses could be discussed and determined relevant to the application the engine will be used for.

Not going to happen, unless someone has a few hundred thousand dollars to burn. People do have experience from which they can draw conclusions, but those observations are often colored by bias or are simply imprecise in regards to accounting for what factors are involved in the phenomena observed(example "another 200k mile KA blown, hah, they are so much more unreliable than my 70k mile SR"). And then those conclusions are sometimes pushed further into error because contrary observations are not made or omitted in the formulation of opinion(example "wow, that ka-t only lasted one month, what lame engines. i guess all ka-ts blow after one month" ).

Some of you guys talk about the KA as if SRs never ever blow. This is called hate. You're hating. You're hating on a piece of metal. The KA didn't steal your money, kill your children, or rape your mother, so keep the ridiculousness to a minimum.

The KA is a viable choice for a hard-driven car, and if you have reservations about that, talk to Jason Rhoades or Bob Stretch.
 
The point to your argument is moot by your own logic since you've argued that exact point in your opening statements. What happens to Jason Rhoades or Bob Stretch is not an accurate depiction of the entire KA-T driven community. I could say talk to Tony Shultz or Matt Martin. They will give you different POV's I'm sure.

Now, I don't hate the KA. I've never said its a bad option for boosting or drifting. What I hate is everyone in their mother who supports boosting a KA says the exact same things while they themselves have little to NO experience. Such as "with proper tuning...blah blah blah." I don't care how well you tune out a KA - the ring land design on the factory piston is weak as hell and one of the biggest points of failure on boosted KA's. Just look at the XAT's Bandit - stock w/ the exception of pistions - lasted with years of abuse and loads of power. Other statements such as "so and so has lasted 50 years at 100psi of boost" or the most ridiculous yet "join KA-T.org, then you'll see" just infuriate me more.

All you KA-T "supporters" - bring your projects out to the local drift events. Stop being posers on a drifting forum while offering little more than word-of-mouth speculation and theory. Come out from under your rocks. SHOW US! Because on any given day at any drift event in Florida, there are 20+ guys drifting with STOCK SR's well beyond factory power levels that are showing you. Now I'm not drawing any conclusions here, I'm just totally lost and confused - where are all these bad ass stock KA-T's that last forever while being abused??? What are you waiting for? You saved SO much money on your KA-T builds that us stupid, uneducated, trendy, and wasteful SR guys blew on our swaps, there should be NO excuse.
 
Tonymac said:
The point to your argument is moot by your own logic since you've argued that exact point in your opening statements. What happens to Jason Rhoades or Bob Stretch is not an accurate depiction of the entire KA-T driven community. I could say talk to Tony Shultz or Matt Martin. They will give you different POV's I'm sure.
Click to expand...
I could've picked more representative representatives, but I don't see how my point is moot, which is that the KA can be boosted and will not instantaneously explode into a puff of smoke and a rain of fire and brimstone if you mate a turbo to it. I didn't go into which is BETTER between the SR and KA because I don't know enough.

Tonymac said:
Now, I don't hate the KA. I've never said its a bad option for boosting or drifting. What I hate is everyone in their mother who supports boosting a KA says the exact same things while they themselves have little to NO experience. Such as "with proper tuning...blah blah blah." I don't care how well you tune out a KA - the ring land design on the factory piston is weak as hell and one of the biggest points of failure on boosted KA's. Just look at the XAT's Bandit - stock w/ the exception of pistions - lasted with years of abuse and loads of power. Other statements such as "so and so has lasted 50 years at 100psi of boost" or the most ridiculous yet "join KA-T.org, then you'll see" just infuriate me more.
Click to expand...
Solid. Though I must comment that the stock pistons seem to hold up OK under 250hp.

Tonymac said:
All you KA-T "supporters" - bring your projects out to the local drift events. Stop being posers on a drifting forum while offering little more than word-of-mouth speculation and theory. Come out from under your rocks. SHOW US! Because on any given day at any drift event in Florida, there are 20+ guys drifting with STOCK SR's well beyond factory power levels that are showing you. Now I'm not drawing any conclusions here, I'm just totally lost and confused - where are all these bad ass stock KA-T's that last forever while being abused??? What are you waiting for? You saved SO much money on your KA-T builds that us stupid, uneducated, trendy, and wasteful SR guys blew on our swaps, there should be NO excuse.
Click to expand...
Looks like there's some backlash against the SR haters, Chill! But man, that was an excellent call-out. I won't be claiming that my stock, 200k mile KA will last forever but I will flog it out(even though I can't drift for shit).

See ya soon.
 
obby said:
I could've picked more representative representatives, but I don't see how my point is moot, which is that the KA can be boosted and will not instantaneously explode into a puff of smoke and a rain of fire and brimstone if you mate a turbo to it.
Click to expand...

I should have been more clear. You were basically saying everyone's conclusions were flawed b/c of skewed observations - which to an extent is true of course - but that if we want real info we should talk to so and so (which would inevitably lead to further flawed conclusions). That's all. You were right on the money to start with - this is BS contest. :bigthumbu
 
Tonymac said:
You saved SO much money on your KA-T builds that us stupid, uneducated, trendy, and wasteful SR guys blew on our swaps, there should be NO excuse.
Click to expand...
OH EM GEEEEEEEEE

hence my stock motor...i <3 stock motors
 
obby said:
I don't know enough.
Click to expand...

not to be a dick but i think that this statment says enough of your knowlage of the subject. plain and simple the motor needs new pistons to do it, stock it wont last if you try to beat it alittle even at 7psi. i think that the biggest problem is that people want to try to see what will happen at 9psi then 10....etc. whatever do what you want thats part of the whole learning thing
 
Obviously, you will see more SR's then KA-T's at a drift event. Its alot easier for "billy" to go and talk to mommy about having a shop put an Sr in your s13 then it is to BUILD one. :rolleyes:

The Ka is not a perfect motor and has its weakness just like the SR... cough*V A L V E F L O A T*cough. All I was saying is... Dont believe the bullshyt about Ka goes boom as soon as it see's boost.

BTW, that wasnt a suggested recipe list of parts for anyone. That was just an example of a friends build according to his budget. Also, the majority of those "20+ kids with sr's" are on STOCK turbos on a motor with less then 75k miles. :eek:

Ive had this discussion too many times already. :boring:

All im gonna say is... Theres a HUGE difference between BUILDING a turbo motor and buying a Motor that is already turbo equipped from the manufacturer. :bigthumbu
 
You can boost a ka 5-7psi safely it depends on what condition your motor is in. Take into consideration how many mile are on it and what the compression is on each cylinder. Is the motor well maintained. And depends on what you are looking for In hp/tq 5-7psi you can get 180-220hp depending on tuning and what setup you have. Make sure you get it tuned right. DO NOT BUY CHEAP PARTS OFF EBAY SUCH AS TURBOS,BOV,WASTGATES.
When you buy cheap parts like that you will end up with problems.
Look at these websites
ka-t.org
nicoclub.com
jgstools.com
efispecialist.com
hybridka.com
jimwolftechnology.com
treadstoneperformance.com


Very Mild Build: around 180 rwhp

Turbo Manifold
Blow Off Valve
Turbo (T25)
Downpipe 2.5" is perfectly fine
Pipe to connect turbo to throttle body

Fuel Control:
FMU (not recommended, but doable) Raises fuel pressure per boost to make injectors flow more than normal.
SR 370cc Injectors. These can be found at places found at the bottom)
Apexi SAFC2
Greddy Emanage


Mild power adder, say you want around 200 rwhp.


Turbo Manifold
Blow Off Valve
Small Intercooler (potentially get away with a side mount)
Turbo T25/T28/14B, etc. Smaller T2 setups. Usually will be internally wastegated.
Downpipe 2.5" is perfectly fine
Replacing the Exhaust is starting to be very necessary at this stage, so I would start to shop for that as well.

Fuel Control
SR 370cc Injectors
Apexi SAFC2
Greddy Emanage
Back off base timing at distributor or MSD BTM

Average: 300 rwhp to 350 rwhp, you have to start to expect a little more lag. This is about the perfect "street car" limit. No race gas, just good honest street car fun that is fully capable of bring home a 12 second timeslip on a good run.

Turbo Manifold
T3/T04E .50 Trim compressor, .60 trim compressor housing / Stg 3 (aka TA31) turbine wheel, .48 to .63 A/R exhaust housing. Internal wastegate optional but not recommended.
Downpipe can still be 2.5", but this is as far as I would want to push that.
Front Mount Intercooler (FMIC) It's time to upgrade to a larger front mount as the larger will push more air than the smaller sidemount can cool.

Fuel Control
550cc Injectors
SAFC2 to control your fuel injectors, along with the stock ecu.
MSD BTM At this stage I would be running the BTM to control timing retard.
Reflashed ECU-This can be a DIY thing with Megasquirt Tuning or a JWT.
Z32 Maf is required, as the stock Maf stops being able to read at around 260 rwhp.
Wideband O2 Sensor should be installed for tuning.

Block Internals
This is where I would start to consider it necessary to replace you pistons.

Above Average: 350 rwhp to 425 rwhp

Turbo Manifold
Blow Off Valve
T3/T04E 50 Trim .48/.63 or slightly larger turbo, this is where I would start to make the switch up to an external wastegate. You have the option to reroute it back into the exhaust, or merely "dump" it out into the open. "Dump" is usually a mini exhaust in the form of 1.5" piping routed out to the open.
FMIC Larger is starting to be necessary. Typical for setups from here on, are 12"x24"x3" for the core.
Downpipe 3", at this point I would switch to the larger downpipe. You can probably get away with it at 2.5", but it will be causing a little bit of backpressure. Moving to 3" piping as quickly as possible is what you want though. Usually it is necessary to have the first bend 2.5" to clear the steering shaft though.
Exhaust 3"

Block Internals
At this stage you'll want to "build" or fortify your block to better handle boost. Previous to this you can walk the line, but here and forward I find it necessary to do so.
Forged Rods
Forged Pistons
Stock Crank
Plus your typical rebuild items.


Fuel Control
Standalone fuel management is recommended at this stage in the game and is absolutely necessary at the next. These allow you control not only very large injectors, but the tuner to have complete control over both timing and fuel.
720cc Injectors.
Wideband O2 Sensor is necessary for tuning.

Wild Build: 425 rwhp to 600 rwhp. Lag is obviously going to be much more apparent, full boost isn't going to happen until around 4000-5000 rpms or so. Once spooled it will pull very hard.

Turbo Manifold
Turbo T3/T61/SC61 or GT35R seem to be the typical turbo's in the area. External Wastegate is your only option that should be considered.
Blow Off Valve You'll want a good performing more expensive blow off valve to alleviate reverted air when the throttle body closes from pushing against the compressor wheel.
FMIC the 24"x12"x3" Core's are still effective in this range.
Downpipe 3" is still capable of handling these power levels
Exhaust 3" or larger

Fuel Control
720cc-1600cc Injectors
Standalone Fuel Management
Recommeded to switch to Map instead of Maf for reading airflow.
Wideband 02 Sensor installed and wired into standalone for adjustments and monitoring.
Dyno tuning is very valuable.

Block Internals
Along with the previously mentioned internals I would add these to the list
Cams (per your discretion)
Build your head as well
Valve Springs
Valve Retainers
ARP Head/Main Studs
Cometic Headgasket or similar
 
Last edited:
Ka-Tony said:
My user name obviously tells you which of the 2 motor's I favor. Honestly, If you don't have a clue nor any hands on experience I strongly suggest going with an SR.

Im not an SR fan at all. I have been in the game for a long time and have boosted Ka's and associate myself with people who own boosted Ka's. One of my closest friends has had his on boost for about a year now. The car feels great and the motor is stronger then ever. Mind you, he turbo'd his current motor with 200,xxx miles on it.

Its not a walk in the park at all. He first built his setup for under $2k. As soon as he got an AFC he dyno'd 250 rwhp at 9 lbs. Thats less money then an SR swap and alot more power then a stock SR.

Btw, for those non believers...

T3 - junkyard - 100
Walbro 255 - 100
Ebay Intercooler plus piping - 300
Sr 370cc - 120
Manifold - 300
Bov - 200
Afc - 200
Hoses - Fittings - Clamps - Miscellaneous Parts - 200

Probably missing a few items but you get the idea. Im sleepy... :boring:

^^ $1500 = 250 rwhp on a Motor with 200k miles. If he bought Pistons he would still be under 2k. Now ofcourse, all the work was done by us. As time has gone by hes bought Flexalite fans, Koyo radiator, an Fpr....etc.

In other words... If you are hands on and would like to build your motor yourself go KA. If not, have a shop put an SR in your car.

No offense to Sr guys, but I see alot of kids that don't know shyt about there motor and have probably dropped a few grand into them. Thats kinda sad... :ugh:
Click to expand...
thats exactly what i was going to do lol...i just thought there was more to it....like compression will be high so i would need to lower that...i just want like 250 to the wheels and 7 psi...and im golden in my opinion
 
Ka-Tony said:
Obviously, you will see more SR's then KA-T's at a drift event. Its alot easier for "billy" to go and talk to mommy about having a shop put an Sr in your s13 then it is to BUILD one. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

We're not talking built motors. :rolleyes: x2

Ka-Tony said:
The Ka is not a perfect motor and has its weakness just like the SR... cough*V A L V E F L O A T*cough. All I was saying is... Dont believe the bullshyt about Ka goes boom as soon as it see's boost.
Click to expand...

Valve float is not an SR weakness. I suggest you do more research before you begin posting facts about an engine you know less than you think you do about. Any valve train issues in an SR can easily be remedied with solid lifters and springs - much cheaper and easier than pistons.

BTW, that wasnt a suggested recipe list of parts for anyone. That was just an example of a friends build according to his budget. Also, the majority of those "20+ kids with sr's" are on STOCK turbos on a motor with less then 75k miles. :eek:
Click to expand...

That's the point though isn't it. :bigthumbu


All im gonna say is... Theres a HUGE difference between BUILDING a turbo motor and buying a Motor that is already turbo equipped from the manufacturer. :bigthumbu
Click to expand...

Who said anything about building? Aren't we talking stock blocks here? I don't consider slapping on an aftermarket manifold and tapping for oil lines to be "building" a "turbo motor." That's just as easy if not EASIER than doing an engine swap. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. :laugh:
 
from my personal views ka's dont take kindly to constant high reving like in drifting.i found its easier and cheaper to get power out of my stock sr than it is boosting a ka injectors manifolds etc shit my sr already came with
 
Tonymac said:
Valve float is not an SR weakness. I suggest you do more research before you begin posting facts about an engine you know less than you think you do about. Any valve train issues in an SR can easily be remedied with solid lifters and springs - much cheaper and easier than pistons.
Click to expand...

If it isnt a weakness, then why does it need to be "REMEDIED"? :ugh:

Why must I do more "Research"? I stated a FACT. Valve Float, it happens with Sr's due to there floating rocker arms design. High rpm's + Floating Rocker arms = Bent valves and alot of damage.

Although it IS cheaper "Remedied"... I would benefit more from the Pistons. :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom